Join Pete Evans as he speaks to SalesStar’s Global Director of Learning Alex Chan.
The pair talk about what good sales leadership looks like and the four pillars of sales leadership success. Looking back at his career, Alex talks about examples of sales managers having a fixed mindset and not fully supporting the development of their sales team. This episode also links the preparation and coaching the New Zealand All Blacks receive in relation to leaders coaching their sales teams. Alex finishes on how giving and receiving feedback is paramount for building a successful team and following a 3 worded feedback structure will always drive development: Win. Learn. Change.
About our Guest
Alex Chan is the Global Director of Learning at SalesStar Global. Alex has a sales background in stationery, printing, business equipment, capital equipment, professional services and diamonds. With his smallest sale being $5 and his biggest sale being $15,000,000! He is a leader of sales teams as a sales manager, contract sales manager and RFP project leader. Responsible for budgets between $2m – $100m.
Alex says: “I get great satisfaction from watching people and their companies grow. When I see their sales climbing, when I see them becoming more successful as a result, when I see managers transform into leaders and grow their teams, then I know why I get up every morning. And nothing compares to the feeling of having people come back to me years later to say I changed their lives. It’s gratifying to be able to provide cutting edge sales and sales leadership learning programmes, diagnostics and business advice that helps individuals grow personally and professionally- and that sees clients reach and exceed their sales goals.”
About our Host
Pete Evans has over 20 years sales experience with a successful corporate sales career. If you’re involved in B2B selling, cold calling, sales recruitment, sales training, sales coaching, sales transformation or have a desire to grow your business then this podcast is for you.
Pete is currently MD and Practice Partner of SalesStar UK. SalesStar combines sales training with sales coaching to deliver long term results in line with your sales strategy so you can smash your targets and grow top line revenue. SalesStar works with growth minded CEOs and sales leaders who are frustrated with their sales results and are looking for a proven system to grow sales.
Oliver Eaton | Pete Evans | Alex Chan
Welcome to the Creating SalesStars Podcast. Each week, our host, Pete Evans, will be joined by some of the big and upcoming names within the sales industry. This is brought to you by SalesStar UK.
So good morning. Good morning, listeners. I’m delighted to welcome this morning, Alex Chan. Alex is the global director of learning at SalesStar. Alex is based in Auckland, New Zealand. So, Alex, welcome to the Creating SalesStars podcast.
Hello, Pete. Delighted to be here and to join you.
Fantastic so for the benefit of our listeners today, Alex, could you give us a little bit of your background and explain how you got into being the global director of learning at SalesStar?
Well, I actually had a large corporate background in sales management and in area management and I’ve led teams and corporations. And then I started my own practice to not only coach and to train people, but also to act as contract or interim sales manager to fix organisations that were broken or sales teams that were broken. And it was at that point that I met Paul at SalesStar and we were actually in opposition for a little while, but it was a friendly opposition. If we found out that we were pitching for the same deal, it was loser buys lunch, but eventually we decided to join forces because we had a lot to bring to the party for it to help each other to even be better.
Fantastic and obviously, you mentioned some interesting things that you mentioned about sales forces that are broken. Is that something that you’re continuing to see in your work with SalesStar and all the SalesStar coaches?
Yeah well, of course, that is why that is why they bring us in. And in some cases, it’s because they’re broken in other cases, they’re doing well, but they just they’ve got ambitions to do better, maybe with growth in mind. But certainly over the last two years with covid, we’ve found that a lot of people were afraid of breaking because they were thinking, how are we going to get through this? So we’ve helped people in a variety, in a variety of situations, but sometimes they’re broken as well. Pete.
And just going back to you, you know, your extensive corporate experience of leading sales teams and managing sales teams, you know, how have you seen things change in terms of leading sales teams over the last sort of 10, 15 years?
I would say that leadership has become more of an art. What a lot of people don’t fully understand is that there’s a difference between management and leadership. And I’ve always said that to be a world class sales leader, you have to have four core competencies. Firstly, you have to have sales quotient or SQ. And that is, in other words, you need to know how to sell. I’ve seen a lot of sales managers who don’t know how to sell. Yeah, maybe because they used to be in some other department and they were just brought in and they just said, OK, you’re the sales manager now, so they’ve got to have good SQ you know, good sales quotient. The second thing is that IQ is important. It’s important for competence. That is their intelligence quotient, and I quite often liken that to their ability to be able to manage and hold the team accountable. A lot of your listeners will be aware that EQ has been a big subject over the last 10 years or so or 20 years or so, and that is emotional quotient. I compare that to leadership, and more recently, there’s been a lot of talk about AQ, which is an adaptability quotient, and that is akin to a manager’s strategic capability. So if I were to put all of that in English, it means that a sales manager these days has to know not only how to sell, but how to hold the team to account, which is to manage also how to lead, which is to inspire the people and to motivate the people. And also they need to have their strategic capability well developed. Because wow, if there’s one thing COVID taught us, we need to adapt to the situations very, very quickly and also to be able to look ahead to disruptions.
So, I mean, just listening to that, I mean, there’s some real nuggets there. Alex, in what you’re saying and you know, if I’m a sales manager, if I’m a salesperson who’s just come into sales management and I’m listening to those four core elements or four pillars of being a great sales leader, which one of those would you pick out, would you say is the most important?
Leadership, without any doubt. But hey, why choose when you can have them all Pete?
That’s a great comment.
Yeah, but we need more leaders, Pete. There are a lot of people who know the trade very well. They might even have a commercial. They might have a trade background or what have you. They know the product well. They might even know how to manage. But it is leaders where we are short of.
And Why do you think we’re short of great sales leaders?
Well, there’s been a lot of discussion about that, and there’s a lot of feeling that a lot of people either came up through the ranks if they were in corporations and nobody ever really taught them how to be a good leader. We’ve seen situations where, for example, technicians were the number one technician and suddenly they find themselves in a supervisory position and they upset everybody because they know how to fix something electronic. But they don’t know how to actually lead a team, and it’s not too dissimilar with salespeople where they just work up their way up through the ranks. But another thing that has been noticed is that because the majority by far our businesses are owner operated, a lot of people started off as tradespeople or as engineers or as people who are technically au fait. They know the business. They grew, and as they grew, they took on more staff and they never started off prepared for that. And suddenly they’re having to figure out how to deal with people. And this is the defining moment when we figure out if they’re a leader because being a leader is all about people.
Do you think some people are naturally, naturally born leaders?
I think that some are. But having said that, anybody can be a leader. It is an art. And it can be easier if you have a natural personality to be able to rally the troops. But it’s also a methodology, a methodology that can be learned. I ask a lot of people, what’s your definition of leadership and something it’s all about? Follow me. We’re going to take that home in. It’s not like it’s not like that at all. That’s not leadership. And you don’t have to be a Martin Luther King to inspire people to follow you. It’s – There are a lot of modern techniques on how to inspire good, good staff and how to lead them through inspiration. And you can even be rather softly spoken, but still be revered as a great leader.
I mean, that’s really interesting, Alex, because I was talking to one of our clients in the UK a few weeks ago, and the sales leader said to me, He used an expression that he was the accidental leader. And that and that in the past, he led sales teams of over 1,000. And he said, you don’t have to be a complete extrovert to be a great sales leader. What are your thoughts on that comment?
I completely agree with that. I know people, as I say, who are very, very softly spoken. They’re not out there, they’re not outrageously loud, they’re not even that charismatic, but their staff love them and their staff, respect them and their staff, do whatever they can in order to help that leader to achieve the targets because they want to please their leader. And that is what we call moral law. And that is when the staff are willing to make sacrifices in order to get the job done. Just because their leader wishes it so.
That’s, that’s fantastic. I’d like to come back to some of the comments you made before Alex in terms of the, you know, the four cornerstones of a great leader and link this to coaching. So, you know, obviously at SalesStar globally, we deal with a lot of sales leaders. We talk about the importance of coaching. Do you think for the man or woman at the top of the sales function, the sales leader, which might be a VP of sales or a sales director, it’s important for them to be able to coach their sales managers?
Yeah, well, let me put that back on you, Pete. Why can’t the sales manager be a sales leader? Can we start calling them a sales leader?
That’s a really interesting point. I mean, I think for me, Alex, these are titles. They don’t necessarily define what you do and how you deliver it. You know, a lot of people talk about, you know, I think this comes back to what Stephen Covey said. A leader knows where to place. You know which wall to place the ladder against. The manager is the person who gets the people up the ladder.
Yeah, and that’s accountability versus people, is what you’re referring to. But some of our listeners may be aware of the definition of leadership versus management, but for those who are a little bit unsure, let me give you my take on this. And it’s not just me. This is a very common take. Management is about getting the task done, whereas leadership is all about people. So if we can just really make that definition clear. I heard a great definition, one time source unknown where it went something like this. Leadership is about bringing people into positive relationship with the task. In other words, they do it willingly. Now you asked about coaching a few moments ago. Coaching is a people thing. Leaders coach their people. Therefore, if leadership is about coach, if leadership is about people, then coaching is a leadership skill. And to your earlier point, which I’m sure you’re going to lead to, leadership coaching is an absolutely critical requirement of a leader and an actual fact, it’s a defining quality of a leader.
Why do you think so many sales leaders and sales managers are put off from investing their time in coaching the team?
Let me make three statements to you, and I wonder if our listeners can maybe resonate with any of this. Here’s the first statement. By the time I show my staff how to do it, I could have done it myself. I wonder if that sounds familiar to any of our people? Here’s the second statement. We shouldn’t have to coach. We should recruit salespeople who already know what they’re doing. And the third statement is, I don’t have time to coach or go out with into the field with my sales team. I wonder, Pete, if you’ve ever heard any of your clients say that?
You know, I hear some of these expressions on a weekly basis, and I know that my coaching team in the UK do as well. I mean, I think the first one is a classic. I could have done it quicker myself, but I think…
Yeah and as an adjunct to that, some people will say, actually, nobody can do it as good as me. So it’s up to me to go and rescue the entire budget.
Yeah, I have a sense, Alex, that when somebody has that, that mindset, it’s a fixed mindset. And actually, that’s just a short term solution. But you get what you get the longer term benefits when you actually coach people.
Yeah and you touch on a good point there Pete. You know, I don’t want our listeners to think that we’re all being idealistic here and to think that coaching is not going to take effort. I mean, it does take time to coach people. There are sacrifices made and you do have to divert yourself from task to coach people. But in the long term, by gum that pays dividends, and in the long term, you remove a burden from yourself of having to do everything yourself and where everything depends on you.
Yeah somebody once said to me is the, you know, as the leader of a business. See how it operates. If you were to take a month off and that’ll demonstrate how well you’ve coached and developed your people.
Yeah, good. Good point. A leader should be able to go on holiday and the place should not be able to afford it should not fall down around them, nor should they keep their smartphone with them and not get a break because they’re checking in all the time. They should be able to leave their people in charge and that raises all kinds of questions. And as much as have I coached my staff to be able to make decisions while I’m gone, have I delegated authority to them to make those decisions? Can I trust them with that authority because I’ve coached them? And even more so have I been coaching my successor? Do we have a succession plan that requires coaching?
These are all. These are great nuggets, Alex. Do you think it’s important for the sales leader to be coach? Because often I come across leaders who say, yeah, we want coaching for my team, but I want you to coach the sales managers. I want you to coach the salespeople. And we said, well, what about what about coaching you? Oh, no, I’m above being coached, but I’ll coach my team myself. How would you respond to that comment?
Let me respond with a question as that leading by example and as that person described displaying a growth mindset or a fixed mindset.
I personally, I would say that individual is demonstrating a fixed mindset. But yeah, I mean, this is an interesting discussion about fixed mindset, which we come across quite a lot of the time. What are your tips to a sales leader, you know, to open up somebody who’s got a really fixed mindset? What what words of wisdom could you share with our listeners?
Well, I think the first thing we need to do is persuade the sales manager or sales leader or both that coaching is something that all of us need to subject ourselves to. And it requires humility. I mean, you know, some of you, some of your listeners may have heard of one of Jim Collins models of the level five leader. And what Collins tells us is that if you are at what he calls a level 4 leader, you’re competent, but it’s all about you and it’s all about your ego. But if you’re a level five leader, you are actually in a position of service where you actually serve a purpose that is more important than yourself. Now, if getting results for the company and achieving the company’s purpose is more important than yourself, you put ego to the side. And if you put ego to the side, it means that you are happy to make yourself vulnerable to feedback and to growth. And growth means being subject to coaching.
And Alex, I’m going to go to ask you about yourself. How receptive for you as a, you know, in your role at SalesStar to feedback from, you know, both people internally and from clients, you know, how difficult do you find it to receive receive feedback?
I’ll make a confession to all of the listeners, Pete. I have a large ego in spite of what I just said about level four, level five leadership. And it’s just it’s just there. So I work every single day to manage it. Because I know that is one of my personal work ons. And so I’m really, really lucky because I’ve got our CEO and my business partner, Paul O’Donohue. Boy, he keeps me grounded and he gives me feedback. Another partner of mine, Kat Davey, she keeps me grounded. She gives me feedback. We’ll keep each other in check. But the other thing is that we’ve developed the custom and the habit of seeking feedback from our entire global fraternity of coaches whenever we’re developing something or whenever we’re trying to get another opinion on something so that we do it right. And that’s all part of design led thinking, of course. So I’m not naturally humble. I’ll fully admit that, but I work on it every single day because I understand the importance of doing it.
And how I’m intrigued. Alex, how have you developed that habit of working on it every day because you mention that word ego which can get in the way of success? So how have you managed to develop this into a daily habit? I’m sure, you know, our listeners have been really intrigued in, you know, if you’ve got an ego and you’re putting that ego out there, how do you develop that humility so that you feel comfortable receiving feedback on a daily basis?
Oh, two ways. But look, in a word, it’s self-awareness, and that is being aware of the impact that you have on the people around you. And that self-awareness is brought about in many different ways. It’s brought about by reading. You know, I talked about one of the four qualities or one of the four competencies of leadership is EQ or emotional quotient, if you like emotional intelligence. And so that takes years of development if it’s not natural for some. And that self-awareness is brought about through evaluations, 360 degree reviews, trusted friends and in my case, business partners who will give you honest feedback if they think you could have done something better or if you could have behaved better and just this constant effort to try to work on those weaknesses because we’ve all got them. I guess we’re unfortunately that is that I happen to know mine because I’ve got some people around me who, as I say, keep me pretty grounded.
OK, fantastic. So Alex, obviously you live in. You live in New Zealand, the home of the All Blacks. Some would say one of the best rugby union teams in the world. Obviously, those Brits might differ on that slightly …
No you were right the first time, Pete.
Yeah, but but but I couldn’t help but but ask you on this podcast, you know, what can sales leaders and sales managers and salespeople learn from the culture of the All Blacks have developed the winning culture?
Well, the All Blacks coach all the time, and I’m sure that the British Lions don’t practice on the All Blacks. I hope not, although there were a couple of games where you smashed us, Pete, and I’m sure the All Blacks were practicing on the Lions. But here’s the point. Do we practice on the opposition if we’re playing a game of rugby? Of course not. We practice before the event and likewise, if we’re a salesperson, do we practice on the customer or do we practice before the event? And that is where, of course, the coaching comes in. The crazy thing is a lot of salespeople hate coaching with a passion, particularly if it requires raw practice. But yeah, true it’s artificial. True, it’s difficult in front of your peers. But you know what? If you can survive that artificial environment. And if you can survive a royal practice with your peers, the customer is pretty easy by comparison, and I have seen people within SalesStar and within client organisations, you know, they thought they were pretty good to start with. We were all practice every single week and you can see the difference in their improvement in just a few short weeks.
And just coming back to this practice, I’d like to unpack this a bit more, you know, how what advice could you give to an up-and-coming sales manager who’s, you know, really wanting to develop themselves? That’s getting constant pushback from the sales team, say, look, Alex, I know that. I know that Pete guy, our sales coach, has said, we’ve got to do role plays, but the role players are just not like what it’s like. You know, when you’re actually in front of a customer, you know, what advice could you give to an up-and-coming sales manager who’s really wanting to push his team to practice? And he’s getting a lot of he or she is getting a lot of resistance.
I think that the key here is to make the role play real. And so a neat little technique that I use and that I encourage our global fraternity of coaches to use is to get the salesperson themselves to write a case study. And that case study can be based on a real customer based on a real situation. And they might just change the name of the customer and the role play so that they, you know, so that nobody knows who they’re talking about. And that person who prepares that case study based on a real situation then plays the role of the customer. And they might write down, say, a dozen bullet points that they don’t show to anybody. But these are facts about the customer and the problems they had or the problems that they had with the customer. And then the person who plays the role of the salesperson has to find out what those problems are by asking good sales questions, good discovery questions to find out what the problems are. Now here’s the point. The point is, if they based their case study on a real client that they’ve been dealing with, that makes it more realistic. And then that makes for a wonderful debrief afterwards. Well, OK. Well, what did happen in reality now that we’ve tried that and some good learning points can come out of that? But I think that if you’re brand new to it, let’s not be delusional. It is going to be a bit clunky at first. Alright. And salespeople, if they’re not used to it, they’ll sit there with their arms folded at first. The key is to gently persist, but you can’t persist unless you believe in it yourself. Here’s the rationale. You might teach somebody something, and they might intellectually understand something, but there’s a difference between what you intellectually understand and what actually comes out of your mouth when you put under pressure. And the role practice, albeit artificial, simulates the pressure to get them accustomed to giving you the right responses.
I love that, Alex, I just want to come back to the, you know, the correlation between success in sport and success in sales or success in any, you know, professional walk of life. You know, you said that the British Lions hopefully wouldn’t go on practice on the All Blacks, although you did say that you thought the All Blacks have been practicing at one stage on the bridge, on the British lions, you know, professional sports teams and elite sports teams invest so much time in practicing. They have, you know, before they go on the pitch to have a game plan. Everybody knows their role when they go on the pitch. Now sometimes the teams don’t always execute that game plan, and there can be a number of factors which impact on that, particularly -particularly mindset. So, you know, in a role play for a salesperson, how do you really, you know, you’ve mentioned about being under pressure, but how do you replicate that issue of mindsets, you know, in a role play? You know, do you think people have a different mindset and a role play than they would in real life?
Yeah, they do. And it’s fair, driven or driven by nervousness a lot because, you know, you can’t pull the wool over the eyes of your peers and all of your peers are watching. And so that creates a mindset of fear or embarrassment, maybe a little bit of insecurity. It could be a need for approval, in other words, and it’s I think that has got a lot to do with why people resist it. But you know what, if they’ve got a growth mindset, just like we were saying, saying the manager, the leader needs to have a growth mindset. All of us need to have a growth mindset, and that includes the very salespeople who are practicing. So that really has implications on the kinds of people that we recruit. But with the people that we’ve already got, can we help them to develop a growth mindset? Well, we know that there’s an evaluation by objective management group that actually reveals to us how coachable they are. And that’s another point, Pete on the objective management group evaluations. It shows them the areas where they’re weak and where they need work, and therefore we can target those skills for development. If their evaluation shows they need to work on those particular skills.
That that was fantastic, so I wanted just to explore with, if I may, Alex. This issue of giving feedback. You know, you were talking about role players and coaching. So I know from some of my connections in the world of sport in the UK when they talk about sports teams giving each other feedback after a match where they’ll use, they’ll use video analysis. And, you know, if their match has been on a Saturday, they’ll meet on a Monday morning and they’ll really unpack what happened in the match, both using the observation of the coaching team. They’ll use video video analysis and from what I know of sports teams, you know, and I’m sure this happens in New Zealand. There can be quite brutal in giving each other feedback. You know, how tough do you think in a role play situation or even if we observe what happens in a meeting, you know, as coaches? You know, if I’m a sales leader, if something’s not happened in a meeting and I’ve got an observation, how brutal should I be in giving that feedback? Or do you think I should? I should dress it up a bit.
Brutality is banned if you’re going to be a good coach, if you’re going to be a good leader. That’s that’s a huge note that leaders are all about people and that does not win the people. So forget brutality. OK, so the second rule is never rescue a sales person in front of a customer. If they happen to be leading the meeting and they’re doing something wrong, let them make the mistake. Let them fall over unless it’s going to put the company in a very, very serious situation. So with those very, very few exceptions, never rescue them. Give them the feedback in the car afterwards. Don’t ever humiliate your staff in front of the customer or in front of other staff. That’s the first thing, because if you do that, you remove the safety of the coaching. It must be a safe environment. If you humiliate them, all you do is you create resentment and an unwillingness to try again. So what should you do? I’m going to share with you three words and the listener, your listeners. They only have to remember these three words debriefing is easy. If you just remember these, do you know what it is?
No go on. Enlighten me on.
The three words are words that you’ve heard Pete, and they are Win. Learn. Change. It’s a three word feedback model Win. Learn. Change, so you just complete a role play or you’re doing a debrief in the car after seeing a real customer talking to a customer for real. And you just simply say, well, what were the Wins from that particular, from that particular role player or from that or from that meeting? Not very good grammar. When you say, what are the ones you could say, what? What did you want but put it to the salesperson first? Get them to self-assess. A good coach will encourage self assessment, and self-assessment is through a harmless question like, well, what were the ones from that? And then the self-assessment continues. Like, what did you learn from that? Do more of do less of repeat again, et cetera and then change. In other words, if you had the chance to do that differently. And to press restart, what would you do different? So the secret is posing questions, and I really, really want the listeners to grasp this. The secret is to pose questions. Socrates taught us the importance of this 2 and 1/2 1,000 years ago, and that’s why questioning is called the Socratic method. So we pose questions why for the third time, it’s because it forces the subject this is the salesperson to self-assess. Now, when they self-assess, they arrive at the right conclusions themselves, and it’s safe because they’re talking about themselves. You’re not being overly critical. OK, but in terms of what would you do different, that is the change. What would you do different? Quite often they can figure out what went wrong themselves if something could have been better and then the leader can just gently if they feel that any points have been missed, just gently walk them through other areas that could be maybe a little bit better rather than saying you did this wrong and you did that wrong, because the moment you say you did this wrong and you did that wrong, you’re threatening. They clam up. They don’t want you to come out with them again, or they don’t want to do a role play again.
Oh, that’s absolutely fantastic. And I know that in SalesStar, we use the principle of Win. Learn. Change. so much in our culture, both internally and externally with our clients. So, so, Alex, we’re sort of coming to the end of the podcast, sadly, but I do have a few more questions for you. So if I’m a sales leader or a sales manager, are there any great books that you’ve read over the years that you could highly recommend to our listeners? We think actually that is a must read book for, you know, a sales leader, our sales manager.
Well, I mentioned Jim Collins’ Good to Great before now. That’s not actually a book about coaching. It’s been around for more than a decade. It’s really about grasping the concepts of strategic management. But I would recommend that book simply because of what we talked about, and that is to try to develop ourselves, not into level 4 leaders where we’re competent, but it’s all about us. But until level five leaders, where it’s all about service to a higher purpose. And with that comes humility. But Pete, I want to finish on this note whenever we lead a leadership workshop in the early stages. We always ask, can you think of a great leader that you either currently work for or that you previously worked for? Now here’s the sad result. About 1/2 to 2/3 of the class will say, I can’t think of anyone. No, that’s sad, isn’t it?
That that is extremely sad.
Yeah now of the ones who say, yeah, I can, I do work for a great leader or I do remember I once worked for a great leader. The next question we asked them is fantastic. Why did you think of them? What did they teach you about leadership? Now you can probably imagine we get all kinds of answers, right? We get three answers. Every single time we’ll get dozens of answers, but there are three answers that appear every single time. Answer number one, it comes up all the time is they never lose their temper. They’re always on an even keel. They’re always calm, even when sorely provoked or when sorely frustrated. So that’s the most common answer. No one. The most common answer number Two is they really genuinely care about their stuff. So when they say, how are you? It’s not a greeting. They really want to know if you’re OK. The third thing and this is the point, the third thing we get all the time is they were a great leader because they taught me so much. And that’s the point. I want to leave with listeners thinking about every single time they say they taught me so much. So the challenge to our listeners is this, what’s our legacy going to be? Will people remember us because we always stayed calm? Because we genuinely cared for them and supported them when needs be. And well, they also remember us because we taught them so much. Because if they remember that you’re a great leader.
Yeah and I think that’s a fantastic way to end this podcast. So, Alex, I’d like to thank you for taking the time until your evening to join theCreating SalesStar podcast all the way from Auckland. And Alex, if people want to reach out to your work. And the work, if they find you, what’s the best way to contact you?
It’s all over the website if they want to know how to contact any of the key people, but it’s simply email@example.com and I’m pretty accessible. So feel free or reach out and connect with me on LinkedIn.
OK, well, thank you very much, Alex, and enjoy the rest of your evening.
Thanks Pete it’s been a pleasure.
Thanks for listening. This podcast was brought to you by SalesStar and hosted by Pete Evans. For more information about what we can offer you head to our website at salesstar.com/UK. You can also find us on all social media platforms just by searching for SalesStar UK.
Presenter and Producer: Pete Evans
Special Guest: Alex Chan
Producer and Intro/Outro Voiceover: Oliver Eaton
Podcast Editor: Alex Mullen