Ep8. Jamie Peacock. Mindset between Sports and Sales

Ep8. Jamie Peacock. Mindset between Sports and Sales

Join Pete Evans as he speaks to Rugby League legend and motivational speaker, Jamie Peacock MBE.

Often the way sports people prepare, train and perform is very similar to sales. Without sufficient sales coaching or practice; a sales person cannot perform to their best. This episode looks into the right mindsets to have when dealing with negative forces and talks about the drive to push ahead when facing a challenge. Jamie Peacock and Pete Evans amongst others will be taking part in Greenhouse Sports Run for the Roof 104 mile challenge on Saturday 16th April 2022.

 

About our Guest

Jamie Peacock MBE, is a motivational speaker, leadership mentor and former English professional rugby league footballer. He played for Leeds Rhinos and the Bradford Bulls in the Super League, and captained both Great Britain and England at international level. His position of choice was prop, although he played much of his early career as a second-row. He is the most successful player in Super League history, having won a total of 9 Super League championships, 4 Challenge Cup winners medals, 4 World Club Challenge winners medals, twice named the Best Forward in the World, named in the Super League Dream Team on 11 occasions, won the Man of Steel award in 2003 and in 2021 awarded the MBE.

Today Jamie is a motivational speaker, teaching people about what it takes to be in a champion team. On 2022 Easter Weekend, Jamie is taking part in the Run for the Roof challenge in aid of Greenhouse Sports. This will involve running 4-full marathons around London, totalling to around 104 miles!

About our Host

Pete Evans has over 20 years sales experience with a successful corporate sales career. If you’re involved in B2B selling, cold calling, sales recruitment, sales training, sales coaching, sales transformation or have a desire to grow your business then this podcast is for you.

Pete is currently MD and Practice Partner of SalesStar UK. SalesStar combines sales training with sales coaching to deliver long term results in line with your sales strategy so you can smash your targets and grow top line revenue. SalesStar works with growth minded CEOs and sales leaders who are frustrated with their sales results and are looking for a proven system to grow sales.

Episode Transcript

Oliver Eaton | Pete Evans | Jamie Peacock MBE

Welcome to the Creating SalesStars Podcast. Each week, our host, Pete Evans, will be joined by some of the big and upcoming names within the sales industry. This is brought to you by SalesStar UK.

[MUSIC]

So good morning, everybody, and welcome to this week’s edition of the Creating SalesStars podcast. This week we have a very special guest Jamie Peacock. Ex Great Britain rugby League International and Captain. Captain the Leeds Rhinos and previously played for Bradford Bulls. So welcome, Jamie. 

Pete, Great to be here. 

So the topic of our podcast is all about creating sales stars for our organisation Jamie, and I’m particularly interested this week to talk about the issue of mindset, but I think it’d be good for the listeners just to talk about how you got started as a rugby league player. 

Yes so my backdrop as a rugby league player started with this five year old, you know, for stunningly a club in Leeds and my best friend at the time brought a letter in October asking for players. I brought the likes of my dad. The subs up there with 10p a week of does agree to that. I’ve been a tight Yorkshireman. And then we ended up at something called played there for a number of years. And then I was never particularly. I wasn’t a great player. Growing up, you don’t want somebody would make a Leeds City Yorkshire, England side. But then when I was 19 years old, got a chance of a trial. The wrath of balls that didn’t go well the first time out. Then I can made the first trial, but then made second trial and eventually became a professional rugby league player off the back of that. 

Ok? I remember speaking to you before. And you talked about going to the first trial at Bradford Bulls and you didn’t actually get off the bus. Can you tell us a bit more about that? 

Yeah so obviously I got the chance to go train with above the Bulls, with the first team. And like when we have any big challenge in our life, we faced self-doubt and self-doubt. We get a better teammate out there and which meant that on my bus journey, instead of getting off the bus stop, I stayed on the bus right because self-doubt won the day. But then I got the bus department. Does, you know, said I’ll try to get you a chance the following week I speak to the club, but spoke the club, you know, he said to me, they’re going to give you a chance next week. So during that week, and what I realised was that have a lot of people around me who believed in me like we often do in our lives. But the one most important person, I believe, is yourself. So I thought, you know what? I’ll come up with a positive saying that I’d say in the months time I got off the bus. I’m going to use that all week then kept saying that some time ago. Course, believe me, stuff can go. Do it. Finally, get on the bus, get them a bus stop and go train with the Bradford Bulls first team now. It was an intense. Our training sessions on elite level sport, but it was nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. And that’s what generally happens, doesn’t it? When we confront our biggest fears, when we face the most self-doubt, if we push through the other side of it, that’s where our greatest accomplishments come. And quite often we find the challenge or obstacle is not quite as big or not quite as daunting as I thought it would be. So for me, that was a really early lesson about the power of just believing in yourself and just having the courage to face up to self-doubt. 

So you play for Bradford Bulls – You were successful, you know, you won the Super League World club challenge, but there were time I remember sharing the stories before and for the benefit when actually it came out that you signed for Leeds rhinos and you got all the stick… 

Yeah,

…sure about, you know, the club wasn’t winning and you know, there was weren’t. It looked like you weren’t going to win the Super league again. 

Yeah, that’s right. You know, in 2005, it was tumultuous season where it was my first season as captain. Six months into my first season as captain normally was first or second in league we’re 6th out of 12 sides. We normally go far in the Challenge Cup. We get knocked out in the first round and then it comes out in the papers. I’m going to move from Bradford to Leeds now. That was a big rivalry between the two clubs and then we lose another big game on St Helens. We got to be honest, six, 5 points to 10 and we’re just surrounded by negativity and lots of negativity around is really impacting how we were as players. I think it was hindering our ability to play at the top level and then things got worse for me. I got two letters, which one was pretty brutal, but then one was quite amazing. You know, it’s really positive and we believe in you and we want you to go on and, you know, be as successful as possible. So for me, that was kind of the message that the team needed to air around. Quite often when we have picked someone, we’re in difficult situations with negative influences around us. We choose who title societal influences, whether that’s negative or positive, and we as a group have to make sure we surrounded ourselves with people. I believe in us, not people who are booing us, it’s not people who doubted us, and we did that. And you know, along with so many other factors along with, you know, being committed to out for each other and aligning ourselves to a cause, but making sure we’re surrounded by positive influences enable us to become champions. You know, we went from being looking like the season was going to be terrible to my last action left in the Super league trophy and the grand final for the Bradford Bulls. For me, you know, it just highlighted that I, along with many other things, is that when you’re in difficult situations, you need to surround yourself with the right people and listen to the right people and ignore doubters and ignore negative influences. And I think if you listen to this, you’ll quite easily know which people are influences fall into, and we made that decision with our influences. So if you can, if you can decide that you can control that, so then that’s important. You’ve been successful. 

So you’ve been a leader. You’ve been a captain. What advice would you give to people dealing with negative people in teams? 

Yeah, I just think you got be straight with them. You know, I think you’ve got to try to get them on the journey. I think you’ve got to try, understand them, try to understand why they’re being negative. Try to get to the bottom of that. And then you’ve got a trial for them on the journey. And there’s only so many times that you can try out. People get on the journey, you know, two or three times they don’t want to be negative. They don’t want to be positive. Don’t end the journey, then it’s time to get them off the bus. I reckon I think you’ve got to show them, try build a relationship, try understand them. Do those two things right? Try find some common ground. I think with people who have got negative influences through a really good way of doing things, you know, I think there’s a thing called to do with Teddy Roosevelt who said, you know, if you don’t get along with someone or they’re a negative influence, if you ask them for advice, you can build a relationship with them, what you want to do that you can do that. But then like, say, if you know, after so many times, if you don’t commit and still want to be a negative influence, then for me, they have to go. And that’s what happens in professional sport. They move on. They get you on the successful teams. I’ve been in the Bulls and the leadership we get. Players come in who are who, who can’t live up to the standards and want to be negative and over time, two years that were gone unless they can change the way you get plenty of players come. And can change the way I see it as well. 

OK you’ve often I’ve often heard you thought that you weren’t the most skilled player, and I’m sure a lot of the pundits would disagree with that. You know what gave you that mindset to think, actually, I can be better than all of the people that you’ve talked about, things you’ve done differently in your career? You know, I remember one of the things is, you know, you were sat on Christmas Day and he want the thing and I’m going to get out there and run because no other Super League plays what drove that level of commitment. 

I just think that my baseline level of probably hand-eye coordination was not as high as most of the players, right? So I could train and do all the drills, but be really difficult for me to close that gap. And I try to do that, you know, try to close my natural kind of hand-eye coordination gap with people. My ability to read a rugby game is not as high as other people. And I think I try my best to do that. But what I realised was, you know, I’m not frightened of hard work, and I know that preparing well and not working people, I can do that. And I know lots of people don’t want to get into a place where it’s really difficult to work and they can’t stay in that mentally stay in there. So I thought, this is the way that I can get another people. So for me, it was about being self-aware and recognising where what can I use to my advantage? Where can I get ahead of other people? And then what essentially is important to be a good person to be a good rugby league player? You need to be physically fit. You need be mentally tough. How can I become mentally and physically fitter while I see what I can? I can do extra training. I can go run on Christmas Day morning because I know nobody else is going to be out there doing that. I can train longer than anybody else, can prepare better than anybody else. And those though doing those actions. Then when you’re out on the field, you do maybe players who are more skill and more natural skill than you. But as you get fatigued, write your skill levels drop. But if I can, if I don’t get fatigued as quick as other players in the last 20 minutes, I have better clarity of thought. I really found that in the last 10 years of playing a great clarity of thought in the last 20 minutes, a game where other people more natural talent will be flagging and making poor decisions because they’re not physically fit as I am and mentally alert. So it’s just, I think I try to summarise. I think for me, it was being self-aware enough to find out where can I excel? Where can I push out in front of other people, but also has to be an area that impacts my performance? It’s no good trying to excel at something that doesn’t impact performance fall and I think marrying those two together, then allowed me to go further than you would think people more like natural rugby talent. 

And when you were captain, how did you deal with people who were talented but didn’t want to apply themselves and commit, you know, what tips can you give people, you know, because you know, we’re talking to sales leaders who sometimes struggle with the same thing where they’ve got talented salespeople who don’t want to pay the price and do the hard yards. 

Well, I think you’ve got I think you’ve got set non-negotiables as a group where everybody buys into that. And I think it’s about getting a group to agree to some non-negotiables and then wait for an individual is not prepared to buy into the group. It’s really easy for all the group to make sure they’re getting the standard, not just your job as a leader. I think again, as a leader, you’ve got to try to build a relationship where you’ve got try understand why they’re not doing that. You’ve got to try to understand what makes them tick. You know how you can get the best out of them. If you’ve got deep relationships with people, you’ll find that everybody’s motivated differently. But again, I’ll come back to right that you can try and you have to make that effort. You can’t just get cook people straight away, but there does come a point in time when you go, right, OK, then you can’t do this. Then this is the wrong place for you. Yeah, you need to. You need to go somewhere else. Why would you spend 80% of your time dealing with the worst 20% of the people? That’s what often happens in business. Well, in sport in winning team, they end up leaving or they leave, a change will go off the cart change. And then you go.

Yeah, so do you think you’ve obviously dealt with a lot of businesses in your transition from being an elite sports guy into what you do now? What advice would you give to them? Sport, you’re very brutal about giving each other feedback, you know, candid feedback and you analyse the performance, and that can be quite brutal. Why do you think business is not prepared to be so brutal in the feedback? 

I think some of it might be a little bit of English culture as well. I think people are a little bit upset to offend people, but I think you hurt people more by not having an honest conversation with them and continue to let them mess things up and not do things to the right standards. You’re actually hurting that person more than by saying, you know, what can I give you some feedback. You need to improve in that area. It’s an area that you need to improve on, and if you don’t do that, you kind of let them down and think that’s how that’s the best advice I give to people. People don’t want to give people feedback, so I think they’re going to hurt the feelings. But in the long term, you ruin them even more by not letting them know because they’re going to keep up with that bad behaviour and they’re not going to get to the levels where that they could lose the job off the back of it. So that’s the way people have got to kind of reframe it. And I think the more that you do it. Are you guys doing it? And I think the more that you do it, the less that you build it up. It’s going to be a nightmare speaking to somebody about it. I think you have to be prepared. When you do that, you have to have your day at a point when you speak to people and it’s about working out, the feedback needs to be different for each person is a different way of speaking to each person. You know, some people can be really direct with some people. You have to be more subtle. Some people you have to ask their opinion. So there’s quite a few facets to it to enable you to do it in the best possible way. But for the first of it, you just got the courage to do it. You know, you got to do it. And I think, you know, people might not like it short term, but the respect your long term over it, and I think that’s the key with being a good leader is that, you know, people might not like what you said to them, first of all, but if you’re saying it with good intentions, you want them to improve. You want the team to improve. There should be no drama with that. And then if they’re a good person, then they’ll come round and say, you know what? They were, right? That’s something I need to work on and improve on it and in spot, you know, you have to do that because it’s just win all you lose, right? Very, very clearly defined. Every every week, clearly defined, win or lose. And if you’re losing too many games and I’ll know, if you’re not performance is that grit, then you need to speak to people because it’s very visible and very public. 

Yeah and since you talk about the public details, talks about your experience of receiving these two letters at Bradford Bulls, you know, when you’re at the Rhinos, you probably 18/20 thousand, you know, experts watching it and then you’ve got the experts in the press. How did you cope with being in that sort of goldfish bowl of experts?

Yeah, no. Yeah, I think what you’re going to have to understand is that people are passionate about sport, right people, you know, they care about their team, that means a lot to them. And I think we all fortunately, we had a lot of supporters, not fans, to our fans of the people who turn on you. You know, when you lose games to support your fruit through difficult times for me, you know what? You’ve got to realise that as a player, the only person whose opinion really counts are your teammates and the person looking back on you in the mirror because we can all lie to ourselves and we can lie to ourselves and get pumped up by other people when things are going well, when they’re not quite as good as we think they are. And I think for me, what I realised is that as long as I’m doing the right thing by my teammates in terms of performance and I know when I look in the mirror, I’m giving my best and what anybody else says just doesn’t count doesn’t matter. It’s just it’s irrelevant. It’s noise. It takes a while to get to that kind of place. But once you kind of understand that, then I think you develop a quite a confidence because what you need to do. You know what you need to do if your teammates, and that’s when you can get a consistent eye-level of performance. 

Yeah and you know, in this transition to working with businesses and you know, and working with leaders, what lessons have you learned from dealing with business people? Because obviously, you know, you start out as a rugby league player and at least, you know, at least falls first. And you know, you’ve done you’ve done a masters. Yeah and I read the article about, you know, you feel feeling outside your comfort zone. I think there was an expression in one of the articles that, you know, you didn’t think going to university, which was somebody like you. Yeah was that a perception you had when you were growing up? 

Yeah, 100% it was. You know, I was a pretty smart kid at school and I saw University as something, but like posh people that it wasn’t for someone like me from a working-class background. At that point. But then, you know, when I got into my thirties, I thought, you know, I’ve got quite a lot of skin in the game knowledge. You know, I’ve got a lot of common sense IQ when it comes to leadership and high performance. But I also I think I need some technical and academic knowledge to underpin that. That’s why I took on the masters, you know, at Leeds Beckett, and it was great to do that because it just kind of showed that a lot of the theories are true, right? You know, you know, aligning them to what we did at the Rhinos. Things I’ve learned from business is lots of things that are right. Lots of, I think the people who are successful in sports are pretty much of the same characteristics and drive as people successful and businesses. You know, a few things around that about, I think always delivering on your word is a big thing. I think people more often sport always deliver on the word, but certainly in winning teams. Yeah, I think that’s less common in outside sport. People delivering, not always. Always saying always, always doing what you say you’re going to do is just. I think it’s an underrated, like super skill in life, like if you can go through life and always do like you, I think you’ll go a long way with that. Then I just think routines and consistency are key as well. I think the people, you know, like anyone, anyone can make one good business decision. Anyone can eat one good meal a week, right? Yeah but the Champions are the ones who eat five good meals a week and make five good business decisions a week the other consistency about them. Same in sport, you know, anybody can play a one 9 out of 10 game, but then the next week a 2 out of 10. Champions in sport deliver eight 9 out of 10 games every single week. I think it’s the same in business. You see that it’s just a simple things as well. That’s another thing. In Rugby League the basics done really, really well. A world class level is extremely hard to do, but the basics from another world will win you just about any single game. And I think it’s the same kind of business. The basics done well of delivering on your word, you treating people right and having consistency around how you deal with that and building trust with people. If you can do that consistently, day to day, then I think that compound effect allows you to be successful in your area. 

One thing that often frustrates sales leaders is that salespeople won’t practice, so they won’t do role plays, they won’t practice routines. In fact, some of them don’t want to learn. Yet in elite sport, you would have to go and train every day, practice, practice moves. Why do you think it’s important that those lessons you learned in late as by practicing and training? Why do you think people in business don’t want to do that? 

I have no idea why people in business don’t want to do that. I mean, I think you’d be pretty blasé and naive and almost arrogant to go into a game and not practice anything. You were going to play against the team because you’d get rid of publicly exposed about that. And I think if sales salesperson is meeting was going to be broadcast on TV, I guarantee you that they’d be practicing beforehand and doing it. And maybe, I think quite often we’re motivated about what people think about us, and I think that lack of maybe public accountability stops salespeople wanting to practice before and practice scenarios. But I thought if that was my business, I’d be doing it all the time, you know, perhaps because I just I couldn’t think of going into a game without practicing what we’re doing. It just won’t get the right result from it. 

And how did you find, you’ve told, bring discipline and commitment? How do you define that thing of actually having to get up every morning, go to the training ground practice through some of the same things, day in, day out? How did you cope with that? 

Yeah, I’m all right with that. I mean, towards the end of my career, I got fed up with having a routine. Aside from somebody else, you know, I reckon lost two or eight years. I was a bit over that. You know, I’m a person who likes to decide what I want to do, and that’s probably why I work for myself and I got a bit of that. But I had no problem with the repetition of repeating skill because you just try and think, you know, let’s be excellent today. You know, if you have excellence as a driver, right, you can never really be satisfied because every day. You can try a churn at excellence. It’s a great motivator in life, is trying to retain excellence. I think towards my back in my career, I think for me, that was one of my aims, you know, try to be as good as I possibly can be today. And I think that’ll motivate you on a day that you don’t grow up to feel like training, Cos you get some days where you don’t feel like doing it. But the days you got to weight them up and you know, and a coach once said to me, anyone can train great when they feel great, but the Champions train the best one when they feel like s***. And I think that stuck with me, you know, because it’s like getting up in the morning. Feel great. You ready to train, you have a great training session. What about when you get out with that and you’ve got to go to training? It’s hailstone outside. You don’t feel like doing it…your body’s aching, and that’s when you got away and that’s when you got really try your best and you might not get a 9 out of 10. But instead of being a 3 out of ten, and you get an 8 out of 10, that’s what champions do , they aim  up in those times and drive for excellence. And I think that’s a key in life to being successful is that ability to do that. 

Yeah, you played in a great team at the Leeds Rhinos. You know, some, some great people, Rob Borrows, you know, Kevin Sinfield and others. What was it like to play the team of champions like that? 

It was just good because, you know, I’ll come back to again is that we were a team of players went on to deliver on the word, you know, if you say you’re going to do something, you did it. And also people knew the roles in the team we had. We had very few players that hardly any who was going out to play for themselves, who gone out to play for the team and do the best they could do for the team. And I think as well, if you look back now, yeah, we all had egos. You know, you’ve got an ego as a player in that environment, 20,000 people, you know, in front of you and physical game, but not ego in a bad way where your way, you think it’s all about you? Yeah, no one was like that. Throughout the 10 years we were together, I thought, I thought, you know, we all want some of the limelight, but it was never the main thing for. The whole team, and I think that really helped us much more than anything that we just want it to win. 

And how is that culture created?

I just think when your leaders have got to behave that way, you know, whatever you say and what have you, do people follow what you do? So if you stay right as a leader, we’ve all no, no, no one cuts a corner and jumps over a corner in training. But then you do it. Everybody will cheat. Everybody else cheat, you know? And just think what you’re doing? There’s no congruence. But I think it’s about having, you know, not a critical mass of players who live and breathe those kind of values of being humble, being hardworking, do the right thing for your team and deliver on your best. And if you’ve got enough people doing that, then other people get carried along the way. And if you don’t do it, you look like a little bit of a prick because you’re doing something completely different and you were at last. 

So what you’re saying is a leader, you’ve actually got to set the example. So others follow you. 

100%! But if what you say and what you do outlined right within, you know, in a very short time, people will lose trust in you. Once your trust is gone, you’re finished as a leader. And I think whatever you say, you’ve got to go out and go do afterwards, you know? And I think where there are a lot number of players that did that. And also, I think we had a real diverse group, lots of different personalities, lots, lots of different characters along the way. And I also think, you know, we had some great homegrown players, but I think some of our overseas were outstanding that we signed the really ball into the club, you know, like Ali Lauitiiti, Kylie Leuluai, Scott Donald, Brent Webb, Danny Buderus, Clinton Toopi. They really bought in to what the club was about and didn’t come over here. Just just, Uh, just, you know, for a two year visit. They bought into what we were all about. They wanted to win and they want to be part of the team. 

Yeah and you think, you know, you mentioned the players know, not specifically as what players, they want to survive. Do you think it was the culture that actually weeded those people out? Yeah want to be part of the culture? 

Yeah, we’ll do it because, you know, if you don’t want to comment and be honest and give your best all the time, some people don’t want to do that. You know, some people’s values are aligned to do that. They want to do something else that they’re up to. You know, I thought this was an experiment done in the 1890s around social loafing often like this French guy didn’t experiment around, Tug-of-War. And what I found out, no matter how many people you took in a Tug-of-War group, there would always be a couple of people not pulling and we call this social loafing. So whenever you have a group of people, you’ll always have some social loafers in there. But the social loafers get found out, you know, and a good culture, and they’ll go on the way in a couple of years time. 

OK, I’ll love that expression and I’ll be using that in the future! Have you got any social loafers in your sales team? So, Jamie, the weekend you’re running a challenge 104 miles to raise money for the Greenhouse Sports project. My business partner, Paul O’Donohue, said. this rugby league must have done something bad to wake up and run 100 miles. Well, what’s motivated is to do the challenge and you know, obviously you’re keeping physically fit after leaving it, at least. But what’s motivated to carry on doing superhuman challenges? 

The few things that you are joining us for part of. Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, the beginning and the end, right? No Yeah. The smart part of it right? So there are a few things. First of all, I’ll go back to that I found running a really good way to repress a physical challenge of playing a game at the end of the week. Yeah and I really enjoyed that particular first dive when I found, like running an email quite challenging. It’s really replaced it for my first two or three years that helped me. And now mentally, I like running anyway. I think when you’ve got a problem, get shoes on outside, run for an hour and generally when you sweat, you think differently and what you perceive as a problem. Generally, you get home and it’s not a problem or you’ve got the we’ve got the solution to it, right? And I also like the simplicity of running that I just put my shoes on. It’s just too easy. But then for me, you know, I progressed, I run a marathon. I feel I feel well- being famous is a byproduct of being or being famous around here. It’s a byproduct of being a professional sports person. I never wished for that. I never wanted that right. And something you don’t wish for. I think you can even view it negatively, or you can view it positive. For me, I want to use it in a positive way. So for me, I want to use it in a positive way to raise awareness and raise money for charities. The way you do that, you know, marathons, everyone does that now, right? So I think to get real cut through, you’ve got to do something bigger. And that’s how we did that double marathon last year. We’ve got some cut through with that. We’ve got the 20th anniversary this year of greenhouse sports projects up. We said, let’s double it, you know, let’s get through some really serious 104 miles. And I just like the fact that it’s going to be really, really difficult. I think physically, I think our lives in the modern day are quite easy. I’m not saying I think we’ve been for a relatively a tough period, you know, to do mentally and also, you know, being Y’s over the last couple of years. But certainly physically, as you can see, you know, the obesity challenge in this country that physically I don’t believe we get outside our comfort zone too many times. And I think it’s a great shame that. And I think being outside our comfort zone physically for a sustained period of time, you know, can be life changing for some people. And I just think it’s a place to stay. You have to go out and try and experience it, and I enjoy experiencing that. I enjoy the challenge of trying to push myself as hard as I possibly can and being like, I say, never get in the air locker and see how long we can stay in there. So, yeah, I mean, it’s kind of three things there. Coping with finishing, playing professional sport, doing the right thing to raise charity and just being a bit sick and enjoying being in the air locker. 

I think you have to be pretty sick to agree to do 104 miles. And what lessons can people learn? I mean, not everybody wants to go run 104 miles, but they might want to do some sort of physical challenge of running a marathon. What lessons do you think people in business can learn from you setting out to do this sort of challenge? 

Yeah, I think some great lessons from setting out to run like let’s say, half marathon or a marathon. Firstly, you’re going to get outside your comfort zone, right? You’re going to get used to being outside your comfort zone. I think our greatest achievements come outside our comfort zone, not only sport, but in business as well. You have to prepare, you have to put the hard work in. You have to do that if you’ve never run a marathon. So there’s no getting away from it, you can’t rock up to the line. And when I reckon a lot of people in business, when they know they can prepare at that level, you have to learn to prepare. You have to be self-discipline, you have to find a routine. They’re important. Part of being good in business gives you a hard deadline as well. You’ve got focused towards that deadline that gives you something a natural direction towards it as well. And also, do you know what you get to achieve it with a lot of different people? And I think one of our greatest feelings in life is a shared sense of accomplishment. You know, we are social animals, and I think in team sport you get that shared sense of accomplishment because I’ve got to that is running around race or running a marathon with that because basically you’re all in the same boat together. 40,000 people in the London marathon, people from all, all over the world, people, lots of people, completely different to me and diversity in terms of views on life, in terms of personality. But for that, four hours, we’re sharing the same experience. You know, sharing the same experience and we’ll all feel the same amount of joy when we cross that finish line. So for me, I think that’s a hugely powerful motivator and it’s a hugely powerful emotional experience. 

Yeah and listen, you’re going to be running for over 20 hours. Are you going to keep your mindset positive? 

Well, I’m sure it will be positive all the way through it. That’s that’s the key, right? I think the key to understand is when you’re running that kind of distances, when you feel like quitting and when you feel really bad, that’s not going to last. You know, it might last fifteen, twenty, twenty-five minutes, but then you’ll push through like life. You know, it’s a bit undulating as the a roller coaster. How intense the feeling of wanting to quit and how intense the pain you’re in is under. So you just know you’ve got to push through it. You’ve got to keep talking to yourself mentally, get through it and then you might have 20 minutes where it’s going to be all right, but then, you know, another 20 minutes to come. So it comes in those waves. You just got to keep walking forward and ultimately the thought is; It’s one step up after the other, right? So one step after the other, that’s all you’ve got to keep mentally doing and mentally thinking. So unless you get a very serious injury, I believe you can just keep doing five. 

OK and Simon Dent said the other day, stop at greggs and McDonald’s. 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah I think it’s like an eating competition on the way around. My worry is that we’re going to experience quite warm weather, so I sweat once it gets above 10 degrees of sweat, quite a lot of time when I’ve taken a lot of fluids, coconut water and up. Maybe a sausage roll from Greggs along the way. 

I don’t quite know whether that fitted into being an elite athlete. 

Well, I think when you’re running an ultramarathon, you go from being an elite athlete to just being a bit weird, trying to get through it. But you know, it’s a huge sport is ultramarathons now. It’s a really growing sport. I think I think the reason why it’s growing is that we lack those physical challenges in life. It’s very rare that we spend a sustained amount of period outside our comfort zone, physically and also mentally. You we can spend long periods of it and obviously we can have periods of our well being impacted, but deliberately getting outside your comfort zone. I think people, once they’ve done that and it becomes a positive experience for them. 

Yeah, clearly you’re a lifelong learner, you know, and we’ve had some conversations about things that you’re reading and people sort of inspire. And I think this is linked to physicality and getting outside your comfort zone. There’s a lot of people are in it in business. They don’t commit to learning. They don’t read or listen to podcasts – you know, what’s motivated you to carry on learning after leaving elite sports? 

Yeah, I mean, it’s great. It’s a good question. And I think for me, just learning is just key, you know, you’ve always got to keep developing and moving forward in life. You, I change the way I play like full time throughout my career because I knew how to stay relevant and change, you know, my business. I’ve always got that. I’m in the business of mentoring people, so I’ve always got to be trying to pick up new techniques. I can’t rely on I’ve got a great framework. I’ve been successful from a rugby career. And I think it will test to stand the test of time. But it’s always got to slightly alter and modify by me learning, you know, being on top of what’s happening in terms of creating habits, in terms of mentality, in terms of mindset because you have a shifting field. So for me, you know, I love learning and in to podcasts and in particular thing that from a different field. I reckon our best ideas come from a cross-pollination. So, you know, for example, I’m taking a book where we may about physics, seven laws of physics. Like a real basic book about that because I think we still find that there may be something out of that I can actually take and using my business, you know, so I’m always trying to look into different fields to get ideas, to bring into what I actually do. And I did that, you know, during sport, when I was playing the league, I won’t really read any sports books. I’d read, you know, things to do with human psychology and the like. Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah, Yeah. Daniel Pink book because I thought these ideas, if I made a sports book, I’m doing the same as everybody else in sport. But if I’m reading these, I know nobody else. I knew for a fact. No one’s reading these books or whatever ideas I’m going to bring in. It’s going to be fresh and new to the field. I mean, and that works several times throughout my career, bringing in a fresh idea of how to motivate a group of or connect to someone from reading a book that’s nothing to do with, but, you know. 

Fantastic. Well, Jamie, good luck on Saturday…

Well same to you Pete!

I look forward to joining you for the first 10/12 miles and last five kilometres and thank you very much for being a guest on our podcast. I’m sure the listeners have got some great value. And some lessons, so thank you very much. 

Cheers Pete. Thanks for having me on. Pleasure mate.

[MUSIC]

Thanks for listening. This podcast was brought to you by SalesStar and hosted by Pete Evans. For more information about what we can offer you head to our website at salesstar.com/UK. You can also find us on all social media platforms just by searching for SalesStar UK.

Credits

Presenter and Producer: Pete Evans
Special Guest: Jamie Peacock MBE
Producer and Intro/Outro Voiceover: Oliver Eaton
Podcast Editor: Alex Mullen

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